We have finished looking at the subject of “hell” concluding that “hell” is not a biblical word and ECT(Eternal conscious torment) is a false doctrine created by religion. ECT as a concept was inspired by the same deceiver who originally lied to Adam by misrepresenting God as someone who cannot be trusted.
The same lie is what supports the traditional false view of “hell” as a place where unrepentant sinners are punished forever and ever by an angry vengeful God.
This wrong view of God being angry and vengeful has hindered so many people from knowing His love. The enemy using religion has done a really good negative PR job against God keeping people from the truth of His love for them as His children.
God is not angry with us He is always the same, loving, faithful and full of grace and mercy. Gods has never changed and always wants relationship with His children not separation from us.
When we engage God intimately, He will reveal Himself in continually new, surprising and sometimes even shocking ways. We can trust Him because He is love and wants the best for His children.
Eph 3:16-18 I desire for you to become intimately acquainted with the love of Christ on the deepest possible level; far beyond the reach of a mere academic, intellectual grasp. So that you may be filled with all the fullness of God! Awaken to the consciousness of his closeness! Separation is an illusion! Oneness was God’s idea all along!
If “hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment what does happen to people who don’t yet know Jesus after they die? The Kingdom of God is founded on righteousness and justice. No one gets away with anything, but choice remains based on the cross.
2 Cor 5:19 God has reconciled the cosmos including everyone and everything to Himself. God has done His part but we must do our part and choose to accept what He has done and be reconciled to Him it is not automatic. We have to choose to accept love.
What about personal experiences? Near Death Experiences and visions of “hell” that seem to show torment. Everyone has a frame of reference from which visions are interpreted, a preconceived expected viewpoint. I have had many encounters of what I would have called “hell” as that was my only frame of reference.
I have no doubt that people have had real experiences of the afterlife both of heaven and of the place of God’s love expressed as the consuming fire of His presence. These experiences are seen through the cognitive filters of the soul. I believe that God can and does use those experiences to communicate with people.
If you believe in torment from a vengeful God whether you know Him or not that is how you will interpret the experience of fire or darkness. Conformational bias exists. My own experiences were of warnings and were confining restrictions revealing the enemies deception and also expressions of fire.
What does happen to people after they die as believers or not yet believers? Are they just soul sleeping? Are they watching over us? Are they suffering? Can we help them? Will we ever see them again?’
What is the nature of the place commonly called “hell“ who goes there and what goes on there and for how long . A common element or theme is fire? What is the duration of what goes on there in the fire? What is the purpose of what goes on there in the fire?
5 common views of what goes on and 5 common views of how long that goes on. 25 combinations of those views. What view does the bible support in the original text and which view best reflects the character and nature of a loving God? Love is key factor and point of reference for us to answer those questions.
Eternal conscious torment also called “infernalism” is an ongoing process of punishment no end. Annihilation or “terminal punishment”, inescapable destruction with no choice after death – is just the end . Annihilation with escapable destruction with choice after death – a possible final end after an undetermined period.
Universal reconciliation also called “universal salvation” two variations both with an undetermined period of time. All will inevitably escape the fire guaranteed with no end of choice. All have the possibility to the escape process but it is not guaranteed no end of choice.
What is the purpose of the fire? Punishment that continues or punishment that ends. Purification and correction via the refining fire of justice. What best describes God character and nature?
Does God enforce retributive justice – the requirement that sinners pay for their sins? Does God act with restorative justice- to heal sinners from their sins? Does God allow people to make their own choices and reap the consequences?
Retributive but restoring: The punishment is applied but it is also intended to bring about restoration. Restoration: Correction is applied so that people can be healed or restored from the results of sin.
Consequential: The fire is self-inflicted as a result of our choices with no possible escape. Consequential but restoring: The fire is self-inflicted, but it is also used to bring about healing and restoration – possible escape. I believe the last one best reflects God’s nature as love.
If it is restorative how long does it last? As long as we choose it to last by resisting the justice of God’s consuming fire that is designed to remove all the dross we choose to hold onto. It lasts until people finally surrender to God’s loving restoration or not.
What happens after we die? What is death? What is life? We are a spirit we have a soul we live in a body. Our spirit was created outside of time and space and pre-existed before this life. Adam became a living being/soul when breathed into him.
Gen 2:7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. – His Spirit. Adam lived with his spirit clothing his body and soul in God consciousness. Gen 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
When Adam sinned his spirit became separated relationally from God and from his soul this was spiritual death. Adam dies physically aged 930 in time and space. 1 Thes 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete.
What happens after we die? What death are we referring to? Spiritual death. Physical death. Death of self crucified with Christ. Second death. Last enemy that is death. Death defeated conquered and abolished.
Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him. Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Rom 6:23 for the wages of the sin [is] death, and the gift of God [is] life ageduring in Christ Jesus our Lord. YLT . 1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Is death inevitable? If so which death? Is physical death inevitable? Is spiritual death as a result of sin inevitable? Is the death to self being co-crucified with Christ inevitable? Is the second death in fire inevitable?
1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. Spiritual death and spiritual resurrection are inevitable in Christ.
1 Cor 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; This is also inevitable because Jesus died for and as everyone. Jesus represented mankind including each of us on the cross by dying our death. Jesus already included everyone.
2 Tim 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, 10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
2 Tim 1:9 He rescued the integrity of our original design and revealed that we have always been his own from the beginning, even before time was. This has nothing to do with anything we did to qualify or disqualify ourselves.
2 Tim 1:9 We are not talking religious good works or karma here. Jesus unveils grace to be the eternal intent of God! Grace celebrates our precreation innocence and now declares our redeemed union with God in Christ Jesus. Most people don’t know this truth.
2 Tim 1:10 Everything that grace pointed to is now realized in Jesus Christ and brought into clear view through the gospel: Jesus is what grace reveals. He took death out of the equation and re-defines life; this is good news indeed!
Jesus has abolished death, and with death what it implies the result or wages of sin and evil. If death is abolished then it is a contradiction for death in its worst form, the second death, to be maintained forever.
Is physical death inevitable? Precedent of Enoch and Elijah says no. Jesus’ teaching in John 6 says no. John 6:49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
John 6:58 This is the bread that stepped down out of the heavenly sphere – there is no comparison with the manna your fathers received from heaven they ate and they died – now feast on me and celebrate the life of the ages. Physical death is not inevitable but if we do die what happens then?
Eccl 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. Psa 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his plans come to nothing. Soul and spirit seem to have different experiences.
Some teach soul sleep and not soul consciousness but I don’t believe that takes into account the power of the resurrection. 1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive. My experiences indicate that the soul and spirit are alive and united in the cloud of witnesses – memory.
The body returns to its elements. The spirit returns to God. What about the soul? If the soul and spirit have been reconciled in Christ as a believer, they are not separated after death. What if soul and spirit were not reconciled before death?
It is possible that the not yet believer’s spirit returns to the Lord but the soul sometimes hangs around after trauma. Alien Human Spirit ministry issues. I know of 2 people who minister to these issues Arthur Burk who evicts AHS and John Smythe who preaches to AHS.
We were a spiritual being who became a living being and then a human being or human doing. Our destiny is to be a godlike being a son of God. Human beings live with the soul being conscious but separated relationally from the spirit and from God.
For a human being after physical death the spirit returns to God and remains separated from the soul. The soul remains conscious but is separated relationally from God but not physically from God. The soul goes into the consuming fire of God’s presence without knowing God relationally.
2 Cor 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. If we die as a believer there is no longer a 2 part Hades we are present with the Lord spirit and soul relationally and dimensionally.
As a believer there is a realized reconciliation and restoration of relationship with God and between the soul, spirit and body that continues. 1 Thes 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
At the coming is a mistranslation from a futurist perspective. At is actually in, among or within. Coming is actually better translated presence. Our restoration is within the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ now not at a future coming event.
1 Thes 5:23 There, away from any effort of your own, discover how the God of perfect peace, who fused you skillfully into oneness – just like a master craftsman would dovetail a carpentry joint – has personally perfected and sanctified the entire harmony of your being without your help!
1 Thes 5:23 He has restored the detailed default settings. You were rebooted to fully participate in the life of your design, in your spirit, soul and body in blameless innocence in the immediate presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So, what does happen after we die physically? Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment. There is so much confusion and misinterpretation about this verse. It awaits man to die or death awaits man. God has not appointed us to die. God does not want us dead but alive.
Many have not died once Enoch, Elijah and others. Many have died more than once Lazarus and everyone Jesus or others have raised from the dead and subsequently died. After death comes judgment. So, what is this judgment: a discernment, a verdict or a separation?
The only death that everyone has to experience is to be included in Jesus’ death. The once is about when we died in Christ crucified together with Him, it can’t mean physical death because our co-crucifixion precedes our physical death. The judgement here is that we were all raised together with Christ because of the justice of Jesus’ death on the cross.
If there a judgment that takes place after physical death it is to discern or separate but not to punish. Judgment is based on our free will to choose life or death by accepting or rejecting the free gift of salvation already accomplished for us. Have we come to a realization of what Jesus did for us on the cross and have we been persuaded to put our trust in Him?
I cannot find any bible verses that indicates that physical death is the end of the ability to choose Jesus. I have asked those who believe that ECT is automatic at death to show me any bible verses that says that our choice to believe in Jesus ends at physical death. No one has been able to give any verses so it is only an assumed theory of infernalists . Are there any verses that disprove it?
If everyone’s fate is not sealed after death does the bible confirm that? 2 Samuel 14:14 For we will surely die and are like water spilled on the ground which cannot be gathered up again. Yet God does not take away life, but plans ways so that the banished one will not be cast out from him. 1 Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to Sheol and raises up.
Lam 3:31 For the Lord will not reject forever, 32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion according to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly or grieve the sons of men. God’s love always offers a way out through His compassion and grace.
If death is a place of no escape, why did the early church teach Jesus went to Hades, preached there and lead captivity captive? (Eph 4:8,9; Psalm 68:18; 1 Peter 3:18-20) . Eph 4:8 Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.”9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
If death lasts forever, why does the Psalmist speak again and again about being rescued from it (sheol)? (Psalms 16:10, 30:2-3, Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 116:3-8, 139:8). Psa 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me. Psa 86:13 For Your lovingkindness toward me is great, and You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.
If the grave settled the matter forever, why did the early Christians offer up prayers for the dead? Why were they baptized for the dead? (1 Corinthians 15:29). How can death be the end when it is cast into the second death lake of fire? How can death be the end if death itself is abolished 1 Cor 15:26 2 Tim 1:10:?
There are other questions that go with what happens after physical death. Does God want everyone to be saved and did Jesus die to save everyone? The answer to these questions unveil God’s intention for what goes on after death.
Are all included in Jesus’ death and victory on the cross? Did God reconcile everyone in Christ? Does God want everyone to experience His salvation? Do we think our humanistic self-righteousness can out last God’s patience?
Rom 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? Do we think that God’s character and nature can be changed by our death? Before our death God is loving, kind, tolerant and patient and after death He changes and becomes vengeful – no.
God does desire to save everyone; I am convinced that he will continue actively seeking the lost. Our free will to choose does produce self-inflicted consequences. The consuming fire of God’s loving presence is for restorative justice for those who don’t know Him.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 1 Tim 2:4 (God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Luke 3:6 “ALL mankind will see God’s salvation”. John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” Rom 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. All really does mean all no one is excluded.
Titus 2:11: “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.” How can God’s grace bringing salvation for all people consistent with the eternal damnation of anyone?
2 Peter 3:9: “The Lord is … not wishing that any should perish (be lost), but that all should reach repentance. “ Wish – boulomai – will, intend, desire to plan with full resolve (determination). intention driving the planning. All – pantas – the whole, every kind of, everyone.
If the Lord does not want anyone to perish, we can rest assured He will do everything He can to that end. God is able to change people’s hearts and make them willing to come to Him even if they come “kicking, struggling, and resentful” as C.S. Lewis.
Song of Solomon 8:6 “Put me like a seal over your heart, Like a seal on your arm. For love is as strong as death, jealousy is as severe as the grave; Its flashes are flashes of fire, the very flame of the Lord. “Many waters cannot quench love, nor will rivers overflow it.
We don’t need another theology or doctrinal position about “hell”, inclusion or salvation. We need a daily personal intimate relationship with God who is Father Son and Spirit that will unveil the truth of who He really is LOVE.
I believe we get to choose when we go to the places of fire we can go now or later but God is a consuming fire and we cannot escape His love. God’s love is an unquenchable fire, intended to refine and purify us. Choose to embrace the fire of God’s presence now.
Engaging God the Father
Close your eyes and begin to think of Jesus ask Him to take you into the fire of His presence. Let the passionate fire of His love consume you. Let the fire of love in His eyes penetrate deep into your soul.
Let the passionate fire of His love surround you baptize you in fire. Let the fire of His love consume everything that robs you hinders you or afflicts you. Let the fire of God’s love consume every bondage, chain or addiction. All guilt, shame, condemnation or fear be consumed
Ask God to take you to the Judgment seat or the altar to engage the Seraphim. Ask Jesus to take you to the river of fire.