We are looking at what happens to people after they die. Looking it at it from a biblical perspective. hell is not a biblical word. Eternal conscious torment is also a doctrine which was created by religion, often to cause people to fear. If you look at the Bible and look at translations from the original Greek and Hebrew language you will find the words which are translated hell do not exist at all. The word hell along with forever and ever, everlasting, evermore and eternal are wrongly translated. There are a lot of scriptures that we have been used to reading in English that aren’t actually the truth when you read them in Greek.
Eph 3:16-18 Paul’s prayer for the church – I desire that you become intimately acquainted with the love of Christ. And when we become intimately acquainted with Christ it begins to change our understanding of who God is, what he is like and who we are, and Paul’s desire was that we would be intimately acquainted with this love on the deepest possible level.
If you can think of God being infinite and coming into relationship with Him, He wants us to go deeper and deeper and deeper, far beyond the reach of mere academic intellectual knowledge where we try to know God with our mind and with our understanding then we are going to fall a long, long way short and probably come up with a lot of our own interpretations of who God is.
But as we engage God face-to-face and experience him in an intimate relationship, then that relationship will begin to change those whole things. So, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. This is God’s desire, that we may be in such a relationship that we will begin to be filled, with the fullness of God.
Even just thinking about being filled with the fullness of God is quite amazing. Awakened to the consciousness of his closeness. Separation is an illusion; oneness with God was his idea all along. He always wanted a relationship.
So, we have seen that God’s love is stronger than death. God is love and God’s love brings truth and justice. And God wants all his creation to know his love personally and intimately. We can all know God’s love today, whether for the first time whether for the first time or whether we have known God all our lives in a deeper and deeper way. Because God wants to unveil himself so that we can know him more intimately.
So, the concepts of God judgment and justice have been distorted somewhat through a religious lens which has been used to create fear of God in a negative way. Now there is a right sense of the fear of God which comes in the awe-inspiring sense of God’ presence. We become awestruck in the presence of God, but not to be afraid of him. Perfect love casts out fear. God is love and that is the most perfect love there can be that casts out that fear. So, anything that causes fear in your life cannot be coming from God.
So, this whole distortion of these concepts come because of a lack of personal knowledge of God’s nature, character, and heart because people have not met him.
So a lot of theology and doctrine is produced from people who were very educated but not necessarily had a personal relationship with God in a deeper way. So, they come from an understanding of their own understanding. We need a relationship not an understanding. So, when we do know God we can see that judgement justice and mercy cannot be separated. They are all basically coming from the same concept of God’s love. So, love, judgement, justice, grace and mercy are all equal partners in God and they all outwork through the same thing, which is God’s very nature.
So, the judgement of God on sickness is healing. So health is what true justice is. The justice of God is the mercy of God. The justice of God seeks to restore all things, that’s God’s desire. So, the judgement of God on man’s separation from love is salvation, with an adoption into his heart into his family forever, to have a relationship with him. That’s the justice of God.
The judgement of God on addiction and bondage is freedom and the grace to stay free. That is the justice and mercy of God applied to our lives. It is not a concept which is just theoretical. God wants his love, his judgement and his mercy and grace to be applied to our lives.
If you’re theology around judgement and justice involves fear, it may be time to look at the glorious love of God and rethink about it so that we can agree with his love in establishing it on the earth to the fullest measure. The world is lacking love, it needs love. All you need is love, and the authority and power to see it manifested in someone’s life.
But it is not the kind of love that humans define. It is the love that comes only from God, in the sense that he is love. We need to realize that hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment. And death is not the end of anyone’s ability to accept Jesus as Lord and to know the father. There are no Bible verses that show that death is the end of choice, and you can’t find them. There are concepts and presumptions based on an understanding of judgement, justice and torment and all those thing which come from a wrong view of God.
2 Corinthians 5:19 talks about God reconciling the whole kosmos to himself and that includes everyone and everything. And he doesn’t count anyone sins against them from his perspective now. So, God has done his part. What Jesus did on the cross finished the work. He has done his part, but we need to accept our part. So how do we do our part? We must accept what he has already done and be reconciled to him. Because he has already reconciled us to himself. But it is not an automatic thing we have a part to play in accepting what he has done.
We must accept his love; it is never forced on Us. God does not force his love, because that’s not love. He cannot command that we love him unless he first puts his very own love in our heart. The wrong concept of God commanding us to love him creates fear. We love him because he first loved us, if we don’t experience this love personally it is impossible to love him.
There are many figures of speech that are used to describe the attributes of God. God is like a tower, shield, a banner, a Shepherd, bread, fountain, potter, lamb, lion, rock, vine etc. and you can find hundreds of other illustrations of things, of words which are used to describe some of Gods attributes. But they are not God, but who he becomes to us. The Bible says God is love, spirit, light and a consuming fire. But the fire is not literal flames that burn.
When we think of a word, the Hebrew way of thinking of a word is the function of the word not the form of the word. So, when we think fire we think flames and we think burn, but the biblical concept of fire is the function of fire and the function was not to burn, the function of fire is to purify and refine.
So, a consuming fire is a description of what happens in God’s presence, because God is a consuming fire. And probably all of us have had experiences where we may have engaged God in that fire perspective and we know some of the angels, the burning ones, the seraphim are fiery in their appearance. We know that the angel of the Lord was a pillar of fire that led the children of Israel through the wilderness, so there are lots of descriptions that talk about that. There was no record of anyone getting consumed in that fire. Because it was there to lead them. So loves refining and purifying fire is both for believers and not yet believers. All of us must face the fire and it talks about us having to engage the judgement seat of Christ, having our lives touched by fire to bring purification in Corinthians.
So, the consuming fire of God’s presence is where people go after death, but it’s not real flames that burn and torture people. So just think of what fire really does in the nature of who God is. You can engage fire in so many different ways in the spiritual realms and the heavenly realms, the river of fire, the Firestones, the judgement seat of Christ. In the natural realm there is a baptism of fire we can experience, that cleanses us from all demonic activity. The eyes of God’s are a flaming fire burning into your heart, there are lots of different ways. When you engage living water in the heavenly realm, the river of life, it is not literally H2O and it is not literally fire, I have never been burnt I have never drowned, it’s actually figurative of something that happens when you engage it and when you experience it, that brings life, that brings refining purification.
So, where people go after death is a real dimensional place within God because everything exists within God. Hades is within God, and it is a real place.
There can be no separation from God in reality because everything exists within Him, we all live and move and have our being in God. Acts 17:21.
So the whole New Age and occult movement that popularised sort of Eastern concepts of transmigration of souls, that peoples souls go into different bodies, reincarnation, spiritual communication with the dead. People claim to be able to contact the spirits of the dead. Mostly they are really connecting with familiar spirits or demons not dead people. There are concepts where alien human spirits and people are ministering to some traumatic soul who don’t necessarily go to heaven. So, the enemy counterfeits many things that are genuine.
Hebrews 12:23 states that we can engage with the cloud of witnesses, the spirits of the righteous made perfect. Their physically dead but they are alive soul and spirit and they are surrounding us the Bible says. So, we can engage them and they do show up, and they do engage and Jesus engaged them while on earth. But if anyone says you cannot engage the cloud of witnesses then you just tell them that Jesus did on the mount of transfiguration and Jesus told us to do the things that he did.
So, they can’t really argue with that, they might, but they can’t win the argument. The Bible says it very clear that Jesus did it and a lot of other things Jesus did also and is encouraging us to engage. So people are not reincarnated but they are conscious whether in the heavenly realms in a relationship with God or whether there in the firey realm not in a relationship with God, which I will explain in a moment.
So why is there a fascination all over the world with what happens beyond the grave and the afterlife as it is called. Because death seems so final for people. There is fear attached to it. Death by any means, accidental, deliberate, disease, natural causes will be the end of life as we know it here, but not the end of the end.
Hebrews 2:15 says people are bound by the fear of death. So, death is a huge problem which creates fear. The view of hell and there are a lot of different views of hell. Some of them are quite jokey because they are made up because people are afraid, so they make a joke of it. Because they are uncertain about it, it is easy to joke about something you are uncertain about. A view of hell as being a big party where you get to carry on doing all the sinning forever and that is a joke really, but it’s constructed out of fear not really about people facing the truth of what might happen, so they make a joke.
The view of hell as a place where all the demon’s hangout with Satan and torment people is also a wrong concept created by religion. They use that concept to try and control people. There are other views of that and some of them are nasty. The reality is hell is a concept that is not biblical. There are genuine questions people ask about death and the afterlife that arise out of this fear of uncertainty. A lot of people are looking for the answers to those questions. They are never going to find them in anything other than God. So, what will happen to me or my loved ones when we die? What happens to children who die, that is a big question a lot of people have. What about miscarriages, what about abortions. When does life begin? What happens to people who die before they are even born? Because we believe that life starts at conception. But the spirit comes into a set of cells at conception. So, should children be treated differently from everyone else? Do you find that in the bible? There is a sentimental view. Is there a cut-off age after which children are then responsible? And before that they are not, so they are O.K. but afterwards they are not O.K. All these things are concepts that people have created, or heard people or ministers say.
So even people who believe in hell as conscious torment (the infernalists) seem to have a soft spot for children. They are not at the age of responsibility so they won’t go to hell. But the reality is that it doesn’t exist anyway in that type of concept. So, children don’t go there. Why would they, unless you’re a tortelian or an Augustinian who didn’t have a very high regard for children, because they thought children did go there.
So, what does happen to children, aborted children, or miscarriages etc? They are in an amazing place, absolutely fantastic dimensional place. That is full of rainbows and angels, it is amazing. They are actually maturing and being trained by angels because they still have a destiny and a role to play. In God’s purposes. Just because they were never born here physically doesn’t mean that their eternal destiny never exists. In God, God’s desire will not be forfeited with that. And they are being trained and maturing and growing now. This is a comfort to people and should be because that’s what God is like. God is love.
So even after physical death anyone who doesn’t know the Lord can still choose Jesus as Lord or they can choose to remain in the fire in a do it yourself self-righteous state, still following the knowledge of the tree of good and evil, that DIY path. There are a few other biblical indicators that a relationship with God is still possible after physical death. Now these are symbolic in a sense because there in the book of Revelation, but there is an indication of what they are talking about.
Revelation 21:10 and he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, in the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed.
If they are never closed, then people can go in and out of them.
Revelation 22:17 the Spirit and the bride say, come. and let the one who hears says come. And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Come basically, so the ability to come doesn’t seem to end. And it says that the gates of the new Jerusalem are never shut. That is after the final judgement if you’re a futurists, all this is future and it is after the judgment of A.D. 70 if you’re a Preterist.
So, it is still open whichever way you look at it, the gates are still open. The spirit and the bride which are believers are still calling people outside of the gates of that. To come through the gate into the New Jerusalem or into the bride of Christ or into the church. They are all synonymous terms for those who have a relationship with God and live in his presence. God is still wanting us to come.
Revelation 5:13 says this- I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, on the sea, and everything in them say: (so does that leave anything out, the covers quite a lot there) blessing and honor and glory and dominion to the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb, forever and ever.
There’s an indication there, that that’s totally inclusive. What that means we will find out.
Revelation 21:5 then He who sat on the throne said, behold, I make all things new.
So how much is all things? All things. And they are all going to be made new. So, God will dwell with man it says, he will wipe every tear from their eyes, death, mourning, crying, pain and the old order of things will pass away and everything and everybody will be made new.
Now that’s the desire of God and I sincerely hope that everyone is made new, but I cannot guarantee it, or can anybody else because there is choice. So, death really is an important issue. It was linked with the lie that deceived eve. Adam wasn’t deceived he took responsibility for what she did by choice. But what happened was Satan said you certainly will not die, when God said you will die. So that created the first lie prospectively and then what happened? Well people do spiritually die and physically die. So Satan lied. People don’t just cease to exist, people don’t just enter soul sleep. People’s bodies sleep figuratively but their soul/ spirit remains conscious.
What happened between Jesus’ declaration it is finished on the cross when he died physically and when he was resurrected? This is a really interesting point, because Jesus did some things there. Then he told us to do the same things that he did. Then there is an indication for us. So where did Jesus go and what did he do?
Matthew 12;40 is Jesus talking it says- for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
That was a indication Jesus was saying when, after he died physically he was going to spend three days in the heart of the earth. And there are lots of other ways of thinking about that. So literally in the grave. Was he asleep or was he active? If he was active what did he do there? It is really important because we need to understand if we are going to do some of the same things.
Eph 4:8 says this- therefore it says, when he ascended on high, this is when he eventually went back and ascended into heaven, he led captive a host of captives. Now this expression, he ascended, what does it mean except that he also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? Which is what we describe as Hades in Greek or Sheol in Hebrew.
Romans 10:7 says who will descend into the abyss another term for the same thing. That is to bring Christ up from the dead. So, Christ was in the abyss, dead physically but alive obviously spirit and soul.
So, Jesus descended figuratively into the lower parts of the earth, the heart of the earth, the grave, hades, into the abyss before he was resurrected and then ascended to heaven.
Revelation 1:18 says I was dead and behold I am alive forevermore, I have the keys of death and Hades. Did he get those figurative keys there I wonder? I think he did. Because I think he took back the power that the enemy had over death and Hades and now he has it. When Jesus ascended into heaven it says in the gospel. He ascended up in a cloud. So he levitated up into a cloud and went into the realm of heaven. We’ll what was that cloud? The cloud of witnesses. It wasn’t a fluffy white thing full of moisture. He went back into heaven surrounded by the cloud of witnesses, the host of captives that he took out of the grave, hades, Sheol, he lead with him into that realm and they became part of the cloud of witnesses. So how did Jesus do that? Why did he do it? Why did he free the captives that were there?
1Peter 3:19 says this- Christ went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison. It says these spirits were the ones that were disobedient in the days of Noah. These spirits were disobedient spirits and he preached the gospel, that he died as them so that he could be their Lord and deliver them. And they received him as Lord, and he took them to heaven with Him.
So, when he was there in the grave, he was actually proclaiming things to the spirits in prison. Now those who don’t have a very good view of what Jesus did, say he just went and preached that they were damned forever. It seems to be harsh. What did he proclaim? It isn’t eternal damnation. This is what it says in 1 Peter 4:5 but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For the gospel (which is good news) has for this purpose been preached even to those who were dead, though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.
So, Jesus actually preached the good news when he was in the grave because God’s desire was that people may live in the spirit with him, not die and stay separated from him forever. That was the gospel.
What would be the point of preaching to the spirits if they could not respond that would really be torture. But Jesus didn’t. Jesus demonstrated the love of God and the power and the victory of the cross that overcame death. So that death, where is thy sting. The sting of death is no longer. It isn’t. Jesus’ victory overcame it.
The gospel is the message of good news, glad tidings. That’s where we get evangelism from. It’s to announce good news. Hell, and punishment is not good news but that’s what a lot of evangelism is about-fear. Fear, if you don’t turn to God you are going to burn forever. Turn or burn, it is not a good message. So literally, Jesus went into hades or in Hebrew sheol and it seemed that it had two places, one for the righteous, paradise. Jesus said to the thief on the cross today you will be with me in paradise.
And to the others, the unrighteous, the departed souls there was another place awaiting judgment. So, Jesus went and preached judgment. Judgment now is you can be free. So, he preached to those who were there. He took captivity, a host of captives and said you can now be free if you will receive me, and he basically entered the place of the unrighteous, to make them righteous. Which is really good news. That’s why there is a cloud of witnesses. That’s why when we go into the realms of heaven the Old Testament saints are there, as well as the New Testament ones.
Matthew 27:50 is a very interesting passage we don’t get heard preached too much. Jesus cried out with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. So, he died physically and behold the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. Which now we know means that we have access into the holy of holies, into a relationship with God through the way truth and life. And what happened? The earth shook, the rocks were split, the tombs were open and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. Now here there is physical resurrection that takes place. And then it says coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Which is pretty weird, think about it. A whole load of dead people who are no longer dead are wandering around talking about what Jesus has done. Set them free from the captivity of the grave. So, the physical resurrection that Jesus was talking about actually took place here. So, what was the purpose of what Jesus did besides the obvious? setting people free, what else?
Eph 4:10 he who descended is himself also he who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things( so his desire is to fill all things )until we all attain to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the son of God (and knowledge there is personal experience) and to a mature man, (another words we come into the maturity of our sonship) to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
That is why Jesus did all this, to bring us into the fullness of our sonship.
Eph 1:10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of times (which was when Jesus came) that is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. in him.
To sum everything up and bring everything to be concluded in him.
1 Corinthians 15:28 that God may be all in all. It doesn’t leave anybody out.
Ephesians 4:6 one God one father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
This is what Paul said that God is in everybody. And he wants to work through everyone, but he is also over everyone in a sense of being King, being father, in that relationship.
Hebrews 1:2 he (God) has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed the heir of all things.
So, Jesus is the heir of all things. Whatsoever things you suppose Jesus is interested in inheriting? I would suggest according to Colossians 1:16 the creation, everything that was created by him and for him including all of mankind. That is God’s desire, that is Jesus’ desire to inherit everything.
Acts 3:20 says this- that he may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you ,whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from ancient time.
So, if you look at the Bible, you’ll see right throughout the whole Bible that God has used people to prophesy the concept of restoration of everything. And it is right through the Bible if you look, you will see that God has always desired to restore everything to himself. That’s God’s plan from the beginning, to have children who would experience his love. His desire is to restore us and everything to that love relationship. So, we all have a part to play, both being restored and preaching the good news of reconciliation. So that everyone can hear that good news that they can be restored, whether now or after.
Justice: is it just for God to separate people from himself Eternally? If it’s just it must be based on something- a judgment. The judgement was that Jesus died for everyone. God reconciled everyone to himself. Then eternal separation cannot be true justice. There are obviously so many situations that don’t seem fair to even us. If separation is forever. and these are just sort of antidotal (something that will take away or reduce the bad effects of something unpleasant or undesirable) things that people feel, but I think they are worth looking at.
What about all those unfortunate souls who are born in different cultures who sincerely worshipped all those false gods and never heard the gospel? What about those people? They have never heard. They worship what they knew, but they never heard- is that fair? Mormons or Jehovah witnesses and other cults and other groups who strive to do good works but were deceived by religion. So, their thinking they’re doing good. New agers seeking the spiritual light, there were all sincerely wrong so tough luck. Is that really the heart of a loving God? So, all roads don’t led to God we know that. We know the only way you can come into a relationship with the father is through the son Jesus. I love the quote in the shack where Mat is talking to God, to the father says- we’ll do all roads lead to you then? And she says no, most roads lead nowhere, but I will travel on all of them to reach you. And I think that is an illustration of how loving and how powerful God’s love is. So, imagine a God who would reject those people who never heard about him, who just sincerely did what they thought they were taught and that he would send them to hell for eternity with no possibility of escape. Would you really want to know a God like that? The toughest meanest most hate filled earthly judge wouldn’t find eternal conscious torment a just sentence! Because it isn’t a just sentence. But we can’t just use our own reasoning to determine what seems fair or not. Otherwise, it will be relative to us. But it is absolute in God. We must see justice and fairness through the lens of love, through the life of Jesus, the living Word who is the express image of God. What Jesus did in his earthly ministry, what he did through his death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, what he is doing now seated in the heavenly places above all rule and authority, that’s what will demonstrate what is righteous, just and fair. What Jesus has done for everybody.
If an older person dies and does not know the Lord, He goes to a place in the center of the earth where the fire of God is purifying and refining and removing all the dross in their lives and they are waiting for someone to come and share the good news with them. We probably have a lot of our own generational line there. But you can only preach with authority to your generational line to the degree that the fire has consumed generational things in you.
Jesus does not go there and preach to them unless they are part of your immediate household. But when we learn how to ascend into the heavenly realms we can also descend into the lower realms.
I know many people who are doing this now. I have been beyond the veil only three times at the time of this writing, but I know how to do it. But I am still spending all my time writing and preparing for the ministry.
This isn’t a new doctrine by the way. This was the position of many of the early church fathers and many people through the last 2000 years have had these experiences and believed that people could be rescued from that place after they physically died. There is a whole list of them there. Clement of Alexandria, saint Gregory of Nyssen. And some of them were of the early church before the Bible was written and others are through church history, who have had experiences where God has taking them there, to do these things. So, there are so many accusations which will be presented to you because you will be called a universalist which I am not, I am not a universalist. Because I don’t believe all roads lead to God. I am not a universalist from a Christian perspective, because I don’t believe it is guaranteed. I believe Jesus gives people choice. So, they will say what’s the point of preaching the gospel then? Because people are going to be saved anyway. So, there is no point in preaching the gospel. That is a really selfish view isn’t it? So, I want people to be saved now. I do not want people to go into the consuming fire of God’s presence without knowing God. It is not a pleasant place to be. I don’t want anyone to go there. So, I want to preach the gospel even more! They also say well I might as well keep on sinning if there is no consequence of my behavior. They are living under the law, not grace. Because why on earth would you want to keep on sinning? And cloud up our relationship with God. If the only reason they’re sinning is because there is no consequence, then they are living under law and not grace. And you’ll find people have of all sorts of things they will throw at you if you start talking about these things. Don’t argue with them, just don’t argue, it is pointless arguing, because that is all they want to do is argue. But just love them and demonstrate it. If you have an experience and testimony, then you can share your testimony and experience of what God has done.
Hopeful inclusivism says that we cannot presume that all will be saved or that even one will be damned. Rather, we put our hope in the final victory of Jesus Christ, whose mercy endures for all ages and whose lovingkindness is age enduring.
Now I’m not asking you to believe me. These are my experiences. I don’t intend to make a doctrine out of them. But I am going to share them because I believe God has told me too. I do encourage you to seek God for yourself, ask him to reveal the truth about his love for you and all his creation.
There is a place in heaven where all those who come out of the fire are. And there is loads of people in there. They are all sitting at benches with men in white linen all around them, teaching and imparting to them. And there are angels there as well and there are these warrior angels standing to attention all around the outside.
This is where those who are being rescued from the fire go to be instructed in the truth and the ways of relationship. The fire is done its work, now relationship must do its work in preparing them for destiny. They have different roles than the others as they have been through a different process. They will be released for the coming harvest with the hunter gatherer angels. They will carry a message of love through the consuming fire that will turn a generation to true repentance. They will become ambassadors of fire with passion to remove the veils of deception, just as those who came out of the graves, who were witnesses of what Jesus did under the earth at his resurrection. Wow-this is quite interesting. They are witnesses to the power of love to overcome even the choices of death. With the warnings of the consequences where they have been. They are being prepared to be at the disposal of the Joshua generation to engage the harvest that is coming. There is an urgency for Jesus’ brothers to do what He did and preach the good news of his love to our generations and see our heritage restored.
The refining fire of the altar is where authority to preach will be given. Embrace the fire with urgent desire and great authority will be released to you. We get to choose when we go to the fire. We can go and be refined and purified now, or we can go later. But we can’t escape the fire of his love. God’s love is an unquenchable fire intended to refine and purify. Fire never sleeps. now we can engage it. So, embrace the fire today. So, I believe all of us have the ability to engage that fiery place, to do what Jesus did, to preach the good news to those spheres that we are mandated to engage. We will not be given authority to speak good news to anyone outside our family lines. Because there are still loads of that to deal with.